The Biochemical and Spiritual Aspects to Kissing
Scientific effects of kissing
Romantic love, is ruled by dopamine and other feel-good hormones; and attachment, involves bonding chemicals like oxytocin.
Oxytocin is associated with the ability to sustain healthy interpersonal relationships and healthy psychological boundaries with other people. Oxytocin is also associated with touching in romantic relationships. This hormone makes you feel good and lowers some of the normal guards we have when forming relationships with new people. While it’s good to bond quickly with Mom and Dad, it’s not so good to bond quickly with people you don’t know as well.
Kissing someone before you’ve had the chance to get to know them creates an emotional bond without the advantage of being educated on their character and personality. And being emotionally attached to someone without knowing their character and personality is a recipe for disaster. How many times have you known someone who stayed in a relationship you knew was bad for them (even abusive ones)? This is the effects of oxytocin and it is blinding their judgment.
In the study “The role of oxytocin in relation to female sexual arousal” (1999) measured oxytocin serum levels in women before and after sexual stimulation the author suggests that oxytocin serves an important role in sexual arousal.
Saliva, swapped during romantic kisses, has testosterone in it; feel-good chemicals are distributed when we kiss that help fuel romance; and kissing also helps unleash chemicals that promote bonding, which provides for long term attachment.
Each of these is associated with different chemical systems in the brain." Sex drive and lust are triggered by testosterone, in both men and women. Dopamine and norepinephrine kick in when romance begins. Oxytocin is a factor in at the attachment phase, bringing the sense of calm and peace you find with "the one."
It is a known fact that kissing affects dopamine levels, demonstrated through the fact that experiencing a passionate kiss triggers the same brain receptors as high adventure activities, like skydiving, bungee jumping, and sporting activities. This hormone stimulates the brain’s neurotransmitters, which are the receptors responsible for feelings of elation and excitement; many couples (particularly new ones) experience these feels after kissing. Dopamine is also a precursor to adrenaline, which helps to explain the increased heart rate and sweaty palms, as well as the feeling of “butterflies,” that sometimes accompany kissing.
Spiritually dangers of kissing in nonmarital relationships.
Kissing is something that can cause sexual arousal. Sexual arousal outside of marriage is sin. St Thomas Aquinas weighs in on this subject in the Summa Theologica in the Section called “of the parts of lust”. He says: “On the contrary, A lustful look is less than a touch, a caress or a kiss. But according to Mat. 5:28, "Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultery with her in his heart." Much more therefore are lustful kisses and other like things mortal sins.
Wherefore since fornication is a mortal sin, and much more so the other kinds of lust, it follows that in such like sins not only consent to the act but also consent to the pleasure is a mortal sin. Consequently, when these kisses and caresses are done for this delectation, it follows that they are mortal sins, and only in this way are they said to be lustful. Therefore in so far as they are lustful, they are mortal sins.” So if kissing is to be done it must be done very carefully as to not contain lust.
The Christian movie Pamela’s prayer (1998) takes place in the 80’s and it reverberates the theme of no kissing before marriage the entire movie. Pamela’s father asks Pamela: “wouldn’t you want the person you marry to have never kissed anyone?” “Don’t you want him to have saved such a special gift for you?”
It seems like a hard concept to accept doesn’t it. There are Christians that do it. There are entire cultures that do it like Africa, Malays, Indigenous Australians. Cultures like China rub one's nose against the cheek of another person instead of kissing.
It seems to be my opinion that kissing prior to an engagement or even the wedding day is not a good idea. Concerning the scientific data about how kissing affects your biochemistry: I would rather have someone be addicted to me for me rather than chemically addicted do to the way their brain relates hormonal feelings and associates me with the source of it. For example have you ever smelled something that reminded you of a feeling or place. I remember when I went to see the Lord of the Rings The Return of the King I had a vapor rub on because I had a bad cough for a month and if I coughed I would keep coughing until I vomited. Every time I smell that vapor rub I remember LOTR. The brain does the same thing and associates the way you feel when you kiss someone with that person so that you want to be with that person. Like I said I would rather not have a person be drugged by my kiss in order to like me. These feelings can be dangerous in the sense that they can blind rational judgment. They can keep people in a bad relationship without the persons involved knowing about it. Father Corapi says “if all you have is chemistry, it can blow up.”
On the spiritual side: we are to avoid the near occasions of sin. This would be more of a problem for guys do to our neurological makeup. Sin hurts God as St Faustina writes: “It hurts him so much that if we knew how much, we would rather spend eternity in hell than commit one venial sin.” My greatest fear in kissing a girl is that I may end up using her. Am I kissing her because I like her or am I kissing her because I like how I feel when I kiss her. there is a difference and one of them is using the other person and using someone is the opposite of loving them. I think things like cuddling would be appropriate forms of affection prior to marriage. I think there is wisdom in the practices of the older generations particularly courtship. Courtship got phased out with the invention of the automobile. Courtship involved the whole family but with the automobile the scene changed from the front porch to where ever. Now do you think people would have been kissing each other in front of their parents? The divorce rate was much lower for those who were courting than it is now in a dating and hooking up society.
That would be my opinion and I am not close minded on this.
Thursday, November 4, 2010
Saturday, March 6, 2010
By golly St Augustine really was a Catholic
St Augustine was a Catholic Bishop of Hippo who lived from 354ad-430ad. He is a father and doctor of the Catholic Church but is also well respected by protestants. Protestants sometimes try to argue that Augustine was protestant and certainly not a Catholic so the following are citations from the works of St Augustine to show that he was not just historically Catholic but Catholic by what he taught and by him calling himself Catholic.
Baptism
The City of God (Book XXII)
"Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born" (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"By this grace baptized infants too are in grafted into his [Christ's] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses even into infants. . . . It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ's Body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture, too. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 15 (John 4:1-42)
"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).
On Baptism, Against the Donatist book IV
"That the place of baptism is sometimes supplied by suffering is supported by a substantial argument which the same blessed Cyprian draws from the circumstance of the thief, to whom, although not baptized, it was said, 'Today you shall be with me in paradise' [Luke 23:43]. Considering this over and over again, I find that not only suffering for the name of Christ can supply for that which is lacking by way of baptism, but even faith and conversion of heart [i.e., baptism of desire] if, perhaps, because of the circumstances of the time, recourse cannot be had to the celebration of the mystery of baptism"
On Baptism,
"When we speak of within and without in relation to the Church, it is the position of the heart that we must consider, not that of the body. . . . All who are within [the Church] in heart are saved in the unity of the ark [by baptism of desire]"
Tractate 4 (John 1:19-33)
"Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ-it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, 'If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven' [John 3:5], made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, 'Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven' [Matt. 10:32]" (The City of God 13:7 [A.D. 419]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"[According to] apostolic tradition . . . the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal. This is the witness of Scripture too" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 13 (John 3:22-29)
"There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized" (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
Eucharist
Letter 54 (A.D. 400)
4. Some one may say, "The Eucharist ought not to be taken every day." You ask, "On what grounds?" He answers, sacrament, he ought to choose those days upon which he lives in more special purity and self-restraint; for whosoever eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself.'" Another answers, "Certainly; if the wound inflicted by sin and the violence of the soul's distemper be such that the use of these remedies must be put off for a time, every man in this case should be, by the authority of the bishop, forbidden to approach the altar, and appointed to do penance, and should be afterwards restored to privileges by the same authority; for this would be partaking unworthily, if one should partake of it at a time when he ought to be doing penance; and it is not a matter to be left to one's own judgment to withdraw himself from the communion of the Church, or restore himself, as he pleases. If, however, his sins are not so great as to bring him justly under sentence of excommunication, he ought not to withdraw himself from the daily use of the Lord's body for the healing of his soul." Perhaps a third party interposes with a more just decision of the question, reminding them that the principal thing is to remain united in the peace of Christ, and that each should befree to do what, according to his belief, he conscientiously regards as his duty. For neither of them lightly esteems the Body and Blood of the Lord; on the contrary, both are contending who shall most highly honour the sacrament fraught with blessing. There was no controversy between those two mentioned in the Gospel, Zacchaeus and the Centurion; nor did either of them think himself better than the other, though, whereas the former received the Lord joyfully into his house, the latter said,
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord's Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
Confession
Tractate 41 (John 8:31-36)
"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).
Tradition
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church" (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).
Church is Catholic physically as well as spiritually
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is catholic and which is called catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard" (The True Religion 7:12 [A.D. 390]).
Tractate 11 (John 2:23-3:5)
"We believe in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church; for heretics and schismatics call their own congregations churches. But heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God, and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor" (Faith and Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]).
Apostolic Succession
Against the Epistle of Manichaeus called Fundamental
"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church's] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that,
although all heretics want to be called 'Catholic,' when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).
Church Authority
The City of God (Book XXII)
"[On this matter of the Pelagians] two councils have already been sent to the Apostolic See [the bishop of Rome], and from there rescripts too have come. The matter is at an end; would that the error too might be at an end!" (Sermons 131:10 [A.D. 411]).
Communion of Saints
(Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400] A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers.).
Deuterocanonical books
Tractate 124 (John 21:19-25) "The whole canon of the scriptures, however, in which we say that consideration is to be applied, is contained in these books: the five of Moses . . . and one book of Joshua [Son of] Nave, one of Judges; one little book which is called Ruth . . . then the four of Kingdoms, and the two of Paralipomenon . . . . [T]here are also others too, of a different order . . . such as Job and Tobit and Esther and Judith and the two books of Maccabees, and the two of Esdras . . . . Then there are the prophets, in which there is one book of the Psalms of David, and three of Solomon. . . . But as to those two books, one of which is entitled Wisdom and the other of which is entitled Ecclesiasticus and which are called 'of Solomon' because of a certain similarity to his books, it is held most certainly that they were written by Jesus Sirach. They must, however, be accounted among the prophetic books, because of the authority which is deservedly accredited to them" (Christian Instruction 2:8:13 [A.D. 397]).
The City of God (Book XXII)
"We read in the books of the Maccabees [2 Macc. 12:43] that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the Catholic Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, where in the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at his altar the commendation of the dead has its place" (The Care to be Had for the Dead 1:3 [A.D. 421]).
Mary’s Immaculate Conception
Nature and Grace
"Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?" (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).
Mary’s perpetual virginity
On Marriage and Concupiscence
when the holy bishop maintained the permanent virginity of the blessed Mary even after child-bearing, in opposition to this man's impiety. If, however, you do not dare to call him a Manichean, why do you call us Manicheans when we defend the catholic faith in the self-same cause and with the self same opinions?
Holy Virginity
"That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head" (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).
Mary the new Eve
Christian Combat
"Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both" (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).
Mortal and Venial Sins
The City of God (Book XXI)
"But those who do not belong to the number of the predestined . . . are judged most justly according to their deserts. For either they lie under sin which they contracted originally by their generation and go forth [from this life] with that hereditary debt which was not forgiven by regeneration [baptism], or [if it was forgiven by regeneration] they have added others besides through free choice: choice, I say, free; but not freed. . . . Or they receive God's grace, but they are temporal and do not persevere; they abandon it and are abandoned. For by free will, since they have not received the gift of perseverance, they are sent away in God's just and hidden judgment" (ibid.,13).
Purgatory
The City of God (Book XXII)
"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).
The City of God (Book XXII)
"We read in the books of the Maccabees [2 Macc. 12:43] that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the Catholic Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, where in the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at his altar the commendation of the dead has its place" (The Care to be Had for the Dead 1:3 [A.D. 421]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).
Tractate 49 (John 11:1-54)
"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).
Baptism
The City of God (Book XXII)
"Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born" (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"By this grace baptized infants too are in grafted into his [Christ's] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses even into infants. . . . It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ's Body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture, too. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 15 (John 4:1-42)
"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).
On Baptism, Against the Donatist book IV
"That the place of baptism is sometimes supplied by suffering is supported by a substantial argument which the same blessed Cyprian draws from the circumstance of the thief, to whom, although not baptized, it was said, 'Today you shall be with me in paradise' [Luke 23:43]. Considering this over and over again, I find that not only suffering for the name of Christ can supply for that which is lacking by way of baptism, but even faith and conversion of heart [i.e., baptism of desire] if, perhaps, because of the circumstances of the time, recourse cannot be had to the celebration of the mystery of baptism"
On Baptism,
"When we speak of within and without in relation to the Church, it is the position of the heart that we must consider, not that of the body. . . . All who are within [the Church] in heart are saved in the unity of the ark [by baptism of desire]"
Tractate 4 (John 1:19-33)
"Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ-it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, 'If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven' [John 3:5], made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, 'Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven' [Matt. 10:32]" (The City of God 13:7 [A.D. 419]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"[According to] apostolic tradition . . . the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal. This is the witness of Scripture too" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]).
Tractate 13 (John 3:22-29)
"There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized" (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
Eucharist
Letter 54 (A.D. 400)
4. Some one may say, "The Eucharist ought not to be taken every day." You ask, "On what grounds?" He answers, sacrament, he ought to choose those days upon which he lives in more special purity and self-restraint; for whosoever eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself.'" Another answers, "Certainly; if the wound inflicted by sin and the violence of the soul's distemper be such that the use of these remedies must be put off for a time, every man in this case should be, by the authority of the bishop, forbidden to approach the altar, and appointed to do penance, and should be afterwards restored to privileges by the same authority; for this would be partaking unworthily, if one should partake of it at a time when he ought to be doing penance; and it is not a matter to be left to one's own judgment to withdraw himself from the communion of the Church, or restore himself, as he pleases. If, however, his sins are not so great as to bring him justly under sentence of excommunication, he ought not to withdraw himself from the daily use of the Lord's body for the healing of his soul." Perhaps a third party interposes with a more just decision of the question, reminding them that the principal thing is to remain united in the peace of Christ, and that each should befree to do what, according to his belief, he conscientiously regards as his duty. For neither of them lightly esteems the Body and Blood of the Lord; on the contrary, both are contending who shall most highly honour the sacrament fraught with blessing. There was no controversy between those two mentioned in the Gospel, Zacchaeus and the Centurion; nor did either of them think himself better than the other, though, whereas the former received the Lord joyfully into his house, the latter said,
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord's Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
Confession
Tractate 41 (John 8:31-36)
"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).
Tradition
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church" (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).
Church is Catholic physically as well as spiritually
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is catholic and which is called catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard" (The True Religion 7:12 [A.D. 390]).
Tractate 11 (John 2:23-3:5)
"We believe in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church; for heretics and schismatics call their own congregations churches. But heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God, and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor" (Faith and Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]).
Apostolic Succession
Against the Epistle of Manichaeus called Fundamental
"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church's] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that,
although all heretics want to be called 'Catholic,' when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).
Church Authority
The City of God (Book XXII)
"[On this matter of the Pelagians] two councils have already been sent to the Apostolic See [the bishop of Rome], and from there rescripts too have come. The matter is at an end; would that the error too might be at an end!" (Sermons 131:10 [A.D. 411]).
Communion of Saints
(Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400] A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers.).
Deuterocanonical books
Tractate 124 (John 21:19-25) "The whole canon of the scriptures, however, in which we say that consideration is to be applied, is contained in these books: the five of Moses . . . and one book of Joshua [Son of] Nave, one of Judges; one little book which is called Ruth . . . then the four of Kingdoms, and the two of Paralipomenon . . . . [T]here are also others too, of a different order . . . such as Job and Tobit and Esther and Judith and the two books of Maccabees, and the two of Esdras . . . . Then there are the prophets, in which there is one book of the Psalms of David, and three of Solomon. . . . But as to those two books, one of which is entitled Wisdom and the other of which is entitled Ecclesiasticus and which are called 'of Solomon' because of a certain similarity to his books, it is held most certainly that they were written by Jesus Sirach. They must, however, be accounted among the prophetic books, because of the authority which is deservedly accredited to them" (Christian Instruction 2:8:13 [A.D. 397]).
The City of God (Book XXII)
"We read in the books of the Maccabees [2 Macc. 12:43] that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the Catholic Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, where in the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at his altar the commendation of the dead has its place" (The Care to be Had for the Dead 1:3 [A.D. 421]).
Mary’s Immaculate Conception
Nature and Grace
"Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?" (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).
Mary’s perpetual virginity
On Marriage and Concupiscence
when the holy bishop maintained the permanent virginity of the blessed Mary even after child-bearing, in opposition to this man's impiety. If, however, you do not dare to call him a Manichean, why do you call us Manicheans when we defend the catholic faith in the self-same cause and with the self same opinions?
Holy Virginity
"That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head" (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).
Mary the new Eve
Christian Combat
"Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both" (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).
Mortal and Venial Sins
The City of God (Book XXI)
"But those who do not belong to the number of the predestined . . . are judged most justly according to their deserts. For either they lie under sin which they contracted originally by their generation and go forth [from this life] with that hereditary debt which was not forgiven by regeneration [baptism], or [if it was forgiven by regeneration] they have added others besides through free choice: choice, I say, free; but not freed. . . . Or they receive God's grace, but they are temporal and do not persevere; they abandon it and are abandoned. For by free will, since they have not received the gift of perseverance, they are sent away in God's just and hidden judgment" (ibid.,13).
Purgatory
The City of God (Book XXII)
"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).
The City of God (Book XXII)
"We read in the books of the Maccabees [2 Macc. 12:43] that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But even if it were found nowhere in the Old Testament writings, the authority of the Catholic Church which is clear on this point is of no small weight, where in the prayers of the priest poured forth to the Lord God at his altar the commendation of the dead has its place" (The Care to be Had for the Dead 1:3 [A.D. 421]).
Tractate 6 (John 1:32-33)
"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).
Tractate 49 (John 11:1-54)
"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).
Monday, January 4, 2010
Apostolic Succession; Jesus’ investment in our past, present, and future.
Apostolic Succession; Jesus’ investment in our past, present, and future.
Apostolic succession is the succession of bishops, in uninterrupted lines, which is historically traceable back to the original twelve apostles.
Is this a scripture based belief or tradition or both?
The clearest place in the bible showing apostolic succession is in Acts 1:15-26. In verses 15-19 Peter is explaining Judas’ death and in verse 20 he says “His office let another take.” The KJV version says “his bishoprick let another take”. In verse 21-23 Peter is explaining what requirements a person should have to take Judas’ place and in final verses read Acts 1:24-26 ‘And they prayed and said, “Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.’ So very clearly we see that apostles had offices that needed to be replaced. Another verse showing the office of bishop is 1 Timothy 3:1 ‘The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.’ St Paul instructs Timothy on apostolic succession in 2 Timothy 2:2 “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” So in this last verse we have 4 generations of apostolic succession. Starting with Paul to Timothy, from Timothy to faithful men, and from faithful men to others.
Now is the apostolic succession thing really necessary? Can’t we just take the bible and prayerfully read it and teach what we read?
To see if apostolic succession is necessary we need to look in the bible to see if Jesus gave authority to the apostles. Bear with me as we quickly go through some scripture verses.
John 20:21-23 Jesus gives authority to forgive sin, Matthew 16:16-19 Jesus gives authority to bind and loose on earth that would be bound and loosed in heaven, Matthew 18:18 authority to bind and loose, Matthew 28:18-20 authority to teach and baptize, Luke 10:16 and 1 John 4:6 authority to speak for Jesus.
So yes Jesus did give the apostles authority and we even see it in action in Acts 15 at the council of Jerusalem. Acts 15:24-29 “We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.”
In these verses it is important to note that in verse 24 people went out to teach the faith without authorization from the apostles. Also see (Romans 10:15 “how can they preach unless they are sent”) We also see in these verses that they exercised binding and loosing that the gentile Christians do not need to follow the law of Moses and be circumcised but need to abstain from eating meat from strangled animals, from blood, and from food sacrificed to idols.
So now that we see authority given and exercised we need to ask the question: Were the things that needed authority to do meant only for the first century or was it to last until the second coming?
So going back through those verses quickly: Yes forgiveness of sins would last until the second coming. What would be the point fulfilling old testament law of confession to priests (Leviticus 5:5-6) by giving the apostles the authority to forgive sin if confession was to cease with the last apostle? Authority to bind and loose refers to teaching and interpretation of scripture similar to the halakhic pronouncements made by Pharisees concerning the laws not written in jewish scriptures. Jesus himself tells the people in Matthew 23:3 “practice and observe whatever they tell you” speaking about what the Pharisees say. So yes we need someone to authoritatively interpret the scripture and to tell us what is spiritually good for us and what isn’t and it needs to last until the second coming. The authority to teach and to baptize. We talked about teaching but what about baptizing. Without baptism we are not born again (John 3:5), something Jesus says we need to enter the kingdom of heaven. Since getting to heaven would be the entire point of Jesus coming then yes we need baptism to last until the second coming.
So now that we see that authority passed from Jesus to the apostles and the need to be continually passed throughout the generations, the question is now: How does this authority get transmitted to the following generations?
The answer is through the laying on of hands at ordination.
1 Tim 4:14 “Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.”
1 Tim 5:22 “Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.”
2 Tim 1:6 “For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.”
If you think about it, in many protestant denominations in order to become a pastor one needs to either be ordained by someone, by a group of ordained persons, or deemed knowledgeable by college courses in the particular faith tradition and is approved by a panel of church members . So how far back in history can this ordination or type of ordination be traced? At some point in time someone appointed themselves with the authority to teach and ordain. I realized this along with all the other converts to the Catholic Church. My Mennonite tradition only went back to the 16th century.
Is apostolic succession a Catholic thing or do other groups have it also?
There are a number of Eastern Orthodox who have valid apostolic succession. These group’s hold most if not all of the Catholic doctrines except they no longer recognize the Primacy of Peter and his successor having preeminent authority over the other patriarchates. Since they have valid apostolic succession they have valid sacraments. Here is a list of some the Orthodox churches that claim apostolic succession with the apostles.
The Patriarchate of Constantinople claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Russian Orthodox Church claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew
The Armenian Apostolic Church claims unbroken succession to the Thrones of Saint Bartholomew and Saint Thaddeus (Jude)
The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church (Indian) claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Thomas
The Orthodox Church of Cyprus claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church claims succession to the Throne of Saint Philip
The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem claims succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just
What do the early church fathers say about apostolic succession?
Quite a bit but here are some of the quotes.
Irenaeus of Lyons [120-180 AD] Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 3)
….Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric.…
To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us.
Irenaeus of Lyons [120-180 AD] Adversus Haereses (Book IV, chapter 26)
"[I]t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church-those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth"
Jerome, St [347-420 AD] Against the Pelagians (Book I)
"Far be it from me to speak adversely of any of these clergy who, in succession from the apostles, confect by their sacred word the Body of Christ and through whose efforts also it is that we are Christians" (Letters 14:8 [A.D. 396]).
Augustine of Hippo, St [354-430 AD] Against the Epistle of Manichaeus called Fundamental
"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church's] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that,
although all heretics want to be called 'Catholic,' when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).
Apostolic succession is the succession of bishops, in uninterrupted lines, which is historically traceable back to the original twelve apostles.
Is this a scripture based belief or tradition or both?
The clearest place in the bible showing apostolic succession is in Acts 1:15-26. In verses 15-19 Peter is explaining Judas’ death and in verse 20 he says “His office let another take.” The KJV version says “his bishoprick let another take”. In verse 21-23 Peter is explaining what requirements a person should have to take Judas’ place and in final verses read Acts 1:24-26 ‘And they prayed and said, “Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.’ So very clearly we see that apostles had offices that needed to be replaced. Another verse showing the office of bishop is 1 Timothy 3:1 ‘The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.’ St Paul instructs Timothy on apostolic succession in 2 Timothy 2:2 “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” So in this last verse we have 4 generations of apostolic succession. Starting with Paul to Timothy, from Timothy to faithful men, and from faithful men to others.
Now is the apostolic succession thing really necessary? Can’t we just take the bible and prayerfully read it and teach what we read?
To see if apostolic succession is necessary we need to look in the bible to see if Jesus gave authority to the apostles. Bear with me as we quickly go through some scripture verses.
John 20:21-23 Jesus gives authority to forgive sin, Matthew 16:16-19 Jesus gives authority to bind and loose on earth that would be bound and loosed in heaven, Matthew 18:18 authority to bind and loose, Matthew 28:18-20 authority to teach and baptize, Luke 10:16 and 1 John 4:6 authority to speak for Jesus.
So yes Jesus did give the apostles authority and we even see it in action in Acts 15 at the council of Jerusalem. Acts 15:24-29 “We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.”
In these verses it is important to note that in verse 24 people went out to teach the faith without authorization from the apostles. Also see (Romans 10:15 “how can they preach unless they are sent”) We also see in these verses that they exercised binding and loosing that the gentile Christians do not need to follow the law of Moses and be circumcised but need to abstain from eating meat from strangled animals, from blood, and from food sacrificed to idols.
So now that we see authority given and exercised we need to ask the question: Were the things that needed authority to do meant only for the first century or was it to last until the second coming?
So going back through those verses quickly: Yes forgiveness of sins would last until the second coming. What would be the point fulfilling old testament law of confession to priests (Leviticus 5:5-6) by giving the apostles the authority to forgive sin if confession was to cease with the last apostle? Authority to bind and loose refers to teaching and interpretation of scripture similar to the halakhic pronouncements made by Pharisees concerning the laws not written in jewish scriptures. Jesus himself tells the people in Matthew 23:3 “practice and observe whatever they tell you” speaking about what the Pharisees say. So yes we need someone to authoritatively interpret the scripture and to tell us what is spiritually good for us and what isn’t and it needs to last until the second coming. The authority to teach and to baptize. We talked about teaching but what about baptizing. Without baptism we are not born again (John 3:5), something Jesus says we need to enter the kingdom of heaven. Since getting to heaven would be the entire point of Jesus coming then yes we need baptism to last until the second coming.
So now that we see that authority passed from Jesus to the apostles and the need to be continually passed throughout the generations, the question is now: How does this authority get transmitted to the following generations?
The answer is through the laying on of hands at ordination.
1 Tim 4:14 “Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.”
1 Tim 5:22 “Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.”
2 Tim 1:6 “For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands.”
If you think about it, in many protestant denominations in order to become a pastor one needs to either be ordained by someone, by a group of ordained persons, or deemed knowledgeable by college courses in the particular faith tradition and is approved by a panel of church members . So how far back in history can this ordination or type of ordination be traced? At some point in time someone appointed themselves with the authority to teach and ordain. I realized this along with all the other converts to the Catholic Church. My Mennonite tradition only went back to the 16th century.
Is apostolic succession a Catholic thing or do other groups have it also?
There are a number of Eastern Orthodox who have valid apostolic succession. These group’s hold most if not all of the Catholic doctrines except they no longer recognize the Primacy of Peter and his successor having preeminent authority over the other patriarchates. Since they have valid apostolic succession they have valid sacraments. Here is a list of some the Orthodox churches that claim apostolic succession with the apostles.
The Patriarchate of Constantinople claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Russian Orthodox Church claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew
The Armenian Apostolic Church claims unbroken succession to the Thrones of Saint Bartholomew and Saint Thaddeus (Jude)
The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church (Indian) claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Thomas
The Orthodox Church of Cyprus claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church claims succession to the Throne of Saint Philip
The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem claims succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just
What do the early church fathers say about apostolic succession?
Quite a bit but here are some of the quotes.
Irenaeus of Lyons [120-180 AD] Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 3)
….Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric.…
To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us.
Irenaeus of Lyons [120-180 AD] Adversus Haereses (Book IV, chapter 26)
"[I]t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church-those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth"
Jerome, St [347-420 AD] Against the Pelagians (Book I)
"Far be it from me to speak adversely of any of these clergy who, in succession from the apostles, confect by their sacred word the Body of Christ and through whose efforts also it is that we are Christians" (Letters 14:8 [A.D. 396]).
Augustine of Hippo, St [354-430 AD] Against the Epistle of Manichaeus called Fundamental
"[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church's] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that,
although all heretics want to be called 'Catholic,' when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 4:5 [A.D. 397]).
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